The First Five Questions for: Senators Tim Kaine and Katie Britt

WASHINGTON, D.C. – The First Five Years Fund (FFYF) hosted Senators Tim Kaine (D-VA) and Katie Britt (R-AL) in the latest segment of our First Five Question Series – a monthly video series which brings together leaders, experts, and interesting voices to talk about child care challenges, policy ideas, bipartisanship and more. Moderated by FFYF Executive Director Sarah Rittling, the two lawmakers discussed their new bipartisan child care package which would help make child care more affordable and accessible for hard working families.

The Child Care Availability and Affordability Act and the Child Care Workforce Act make up a bipartisan package that would update current tax provisions to help more parents afford the child care they need, while also addressing child care workforce challenges by creating a pilot program to boost the supply of child care workers.

Check out the video below and read the Q&A* to hear what these two leaders think about child care challenges, solutions, and hopes for the future.

An edited transcript of their conversation included below:

Sarah Rittling: Welcome to the September installment of our First Five Questions series. I’m joined today by Senators Katie Britt, of Alabama, and Tim Kaine, of Virginia, who recently teamed up to tackle an issue top of mind for many in this country, parents and businesses alike.

Child care. 

FFYF has been fortunate enough to work with Senator Kaine over the years in his efforts to advocate for early care and education. And in just her first few years in Congress, Senator Britt has quickly established herself as a leader on these issues. 

Today we welcome them here to talk about their proposal, which will help lower the cost and boost the supply of child care for working families. Senators, welcome! Let’s jump right in.

QUESTION ONE: WHY CHILD CARE 

You’re both very busy, high profile senators, with many demands on your time and attention. Why child care, how did this issue break through for you? 

KAINE: So I’m a good bit older than Katie – she has a very current story. But when my wife and I were raising our three kids, we used every kind of child care option: from public school preschool initiative, in-home child care in somebody else’s home, church based child care, nonprofit child care. We saw it all, and the challenges of it. 

We’re two working lawyers with ample resources. If it was tough for us to negotiate, it was really tough for single parents or parents of modest means. 

But we also ran into some amazing early childhood educators, and came to know that they weren’t very well compensated when they were doing this super important work. So it was too expensive for parents. It was hard to negotiate, and the providers weren’t being treated the way I wish they were. One of my three adult kids is a pre-k classroom aid, so has gone into the space; I know how poor compensation is. So that’s why it’s been important to me. As a mayor, as a Governor of Virginia, we did dramatic expansion of early childhood, and now I’m on the HELP Committee in the Senate. 

So, together with Patty Murray, who’s been such a champion of this, I really try to do as much work as I can. It was Patty one day who said, “You know, you ought to talk to Katie Britt”, and so that was the way we started to work together. 

It’s been a blast to work with Katie, and we think we’ve come up with a solution, not the solution, not the only solution, but a solution that’s a different angle than the way most people are approaching the problem.

Rittling: Same question to you, Senator Britt.

Britt: It has been a real honor to be able to partner with Senator Kaine on this. As you mentioned, you’ve had a long tenure with him and his record on this, both as a mayor and governor. It’s just been next level. 

As we work to do this I just thought about my own life experience and that of my siblings, and my friends, and the things that I was hearing back home. 

When I had my children, I had gone back to law school and found myself with a newborn and an 11 month old. I often joke that on the scale of bad ideas, that one takes the cake. 

I remember trying to find child care in the midst of classes, and not being able to get my children into the same spot, and then also there being a waiting list. Well, there wasn’t a waiting list for me to go back to class.

Trying to figure out all of those different dynamics was challenging. Then, when we moved to Birmingham and I began to practice law, I remember my husband and I writing a check for our child care that felt like we were writing a check for college. 

We were fortunate to have a nest egg to fall back on, but know that that is not the case for many people. I consistently ask, “How do people do this?” 

As we moved into adulthood and listened to my siblings, and my cousins, there have been many cases where women who I love in my life have had to make a decision about whether or not to work or to send their kids to child care. If a woman or a man wants and has the opportunity to stay home, I want them to have that opportunity. But if they want to be a part of the workforce, if there is a dream that they are pursuing, and a passion for their family, I don’t want child care to be an impediment to them being able to reenter the workforce.

We’re trying to figure out how we could have some simple but practical solutions that put parents back in the driver’s seat, and that encouraged businesses, both big and small, to actually be involved in helping their employees with this really incredible challenge. So it was personal for me on a lot of levels. 

When I came to the Senate, I wanted to be engaged in meaningful things, and like I said, I’m proud to be able to partner with Senator Kaine on this, and I feel good about the opportunity to move it forward.

Kaine: And Katie, can’t I prompt you on one other thing? 

Britt: Please.

Kaine: Weren’t you very involved with – we call it the Virginia Chamber of Commerce, it’s got a different name in Alabama – but you were hearing about this from employers all over the state, too.

Britt: Yeah. We look at the workforce challenges and shortages we have. Several years ago, you may have thought you would hear just from one industry or another. When I was President and CEO of the Business Council, I would go sit down with our largest manufacturer or a mom and pop on Main Street, or anything in between. Workforce challenges were top of mind, and when I would talk to them about why that is, they would talk about employees that had to leave the workforce because of this very issue. 

Knowing that we want our economy up and running and moving forward and creating opportunity for people; that depends on people’s ability to actually engage in it. It was very clear that this was one of the top impediments to continued growth and continued creation of opportunity – from our largest businesses in Alabama to our smallest. 

That’s why, too, we’ve been able to gain so much momentum so quickly, because so many people see the real issue that this is, and the multiple effects it has on communities across our state. And, as you know, it disproportionately affects women. We want to make sure that we’re engaging as many people as possible in the workforce that want to be there.

Rittling: Exactly. I’m glad Senator Kaine, that you moved us to question three, which was about the workforce.

Britt: It’s so important we can even come back to it.

QUESTION TWO: CHILD CARE AS A BUSINESS ISSUE 

Rittling: We can stick there, because I think that child care does touch on so many parts of an individual’s life. Certainly as a working family. You articulated that the economic or the employer aspect of it, and workforce, is so critical as well. Do you have anything else you want to add on that?

Britt: Senator Kaine may want to talk about this, but that was another perspective that we brought to this conversation.

45F allows businesses to be able to receive those tax credits up into $150,000, but expanding that to a half a million dollars really encourages employers to be more invested in helping employees face this challenge, head on.

Knowing that Tim and I serve people all across our states, we know that small businesses are the heartbeats of communities.

In every corner of our states, we know that they are the character of main streets and of cities and towns. How do we allow them to be a part of this as well?

I am the daughter of two small business owners. I was constantly seeing, growing up, the struggles of a small business owner. That that is the American dream in and of itself. 

Allowing businesses to pull, and a portion of our bill up to $600,000 together, to strengthen numbers there, and be able to to utilize 45F –  that was really important to the two of us, and we’re really proud that it’s in there.

Kaine: One other employer thing I want to mention. I’m on the Armed Services Committee and I just did a visit of a Child Development Center on the Quantico Marine Base that I helped get funding through the MilCon budget to expand. But as I sat and talked to family members there – you don’t want active duty military members to be doing their MOS during the day, but have a little part of their brain on “my kids not in a good child care setting.”

They’re going to be distracted and not doing their job. You want people who are good to stay in the military. You don’t want them to leave because of inadequate child care. The Quantico base is just an example. But I could give you many military bases that don’t have sufficient child care on base. And so people are trying to go off base and find child care, and they’re having a really hard time. 

So yes, it’s about private sector employers, but it also gets into national security and military readiness and recruitment and retention in the armed services space. This is a big issue: for kids, for parents, for providers, but also for the economy, and even even the security of our country.

Britt: Absolutely.

Rittling: 45F, which you talked about Senator Britt, and the Child Care and Dependent Tax Credit, offsets a lot of those costs and provides some peace of mind. And then, of course, the other savings piece, too. When you’re talking about employer engagement, we’re seeing employers of all sizes and shapes,public and private,are really eager to be part of this as well. These adjustments would make a huge difference in that regard.

 Kaine: The thing about Katie and I working on this is we are coming at it from a different angle. The traditional discussion here is about Appropriations: the Child Care and Development Block Grant or Head Start funding.

Our proposal really leans into three provisions in the tax code.

One: There’s the child care tax credit for families, and making it refundable so that low income families can really benefit from it.

Second: the tax incentives for employers to provide child care assistance for employees.

Third: The availability or encouragement of people using flexible savings accounts: pre-tax dollars that they can then use for child care. We’re taking existing portions of the tax code and supercharging it, and that can combine together with Child Care and Development Block Grant and Head Start funding.

Britt: He’s exactly right. I am on the Appropriations Committee and that’s a part of that. And he mentioned Patty Murray earlier, and obviously Susan Collins; they’re all working, amongst a number of people, to fund the Head Start and early education programs. 

One of the questions, too, that we had in this was: Head Start, particularly in Alabama, if you qualify for that, let’s say you make $25,780. Let’s say it’s like somewhere about that. 

Well, what happens if you make $25,790, and that’s about the right money. Then what happens? 

One of the things that we looked at that was important to Tim and I was: “How do we make sure we’re helping low and middle income families or moms or parents in this process?”

I’m sure Tim can talk to this very directly. But we also put provisions in there to make sure that we were taking a look at that as well. 

Rittling: Senator Kaine, you want to talk a little bit more about that?

Kaine: Well, I think I think we’ve given you the basics. The three tax code provisions: one for employers, one for the parents, and then one for flexible savings accounts that employees can access with pre tax dollars that enable them to better afford these expenses.

You put all those three on the table, together with appropriators fighting hard to get funds for these programs, then you’re really expanding people’s options. 

But, as Katie said, can we do something that really helps those who need it most? A child care tax credit doesn’t help much if it’s not refundable at the lower income levels.

QUESTION THREE: CHILD CARE SUPPLY 

Rittling: You’ve both hit on really important pieces. We couldn’t agree more. 

And we also look at another piece of this and the other side of this, which is the supply side. Senator Kaine, do you want to say a little bit more that piece of the package, and why it was important?

Kaine: The one piece of this that isn’t the tax code piece is incentive dollars, if the states want to do retention strategies to keep people [employed] in child care. 

When I visited the Quantico Child Care Development Center a couple of weeks back, they really have a problem holding on to people. As salaries are going up – child care work is satisfying – but it’s tough. And if you can make more in a retail establishment then as a child care worker, you may want to stay in the classroom, but you may gravitate elsewhere. We’re seeing that all over the Commonwealth. 

So we have a pilot project in our bill that would give incentive dollars to states if they do retention bonuses. Virginia has done this very successfully and probably about 13 or 14,000 child care workers in Virginia have received a grant. This is through our State Legislature, Governor Youngkin, a Republican Governor, and two Democratic houses.

They came up with this strategy to provide incentives for people who come into this field and then stay. 

The dollar incentive is really important. But the respect message that goes along with it might even be more important. “We notice you. We care about you. We want you to stay. We value your work.”

And so that’s the other component of this bill that’s not related to the tax code. But it’s just honoring the professionals who stick with this.

Britt: Tim nailed it earlier when he said,”Honoring the professional”. And also when he was talking about what it’s like to be a parent with a revolving door of professionals in that space. You cannot blame these individuals for taking a better opportunity to provide for themselves and their family. So at the same time, how do we create a space where it creates stability for these children? And you do that while respecting the profession and making sure that we can do better both in recruiting and retention. We think that this program will help with both of those.

Rittling: We do, too.

QUESTION FOUR: BIPARTISANSHIP

Rittling: I’m gonna pivot us to something near and dear to our heart. In this day and age, a lot of people don’t necessarily see how important bipartisanship is in getting big things done. What you’re trying to do is a really big thing. And I don’t think that some people watching really realize that members of Congress actually come together daily to tackle these things and find solutions. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on how you’ve come together on this and the importance of working across the aisle as we tackle big things.

Kaine: The sad reality is, this happens a lot more than people realize. It’s just cooperation isn’t sexy and conflict is.

People who are cooperating: Okay, put that on page B35, or maybe nowhere. If Katie were to say something really mean about me, that would get coverage. 

We do more than most people think; we should do more still. 

However, this is an issue whether you’re a Republican listening to her constituents or a Democratic listening to his constituents. This comes up over and over and over again.

Sarah, you recently were with a Virginia child care provider that’s kind of unusual. It’s a small coffee roastery in the very small town of Floyd, Virginia. They’ve started their own on site child care for just a handful of their employees kids and others. 

This is an issue in the most rural part of Appalachian Virginia. And it’s an issue in the heart of Fairfax County, the largest suburban jurisdiction in Virginia. I go nowhere without hearing about this. So whether you’re a Democrat or a Republican, and wherever you are in this country, people are going to be telling you: “Do something about this.”

Britt: He’s exactly right. We are hearing this in every meeting that we’re in, in every corner of our state. Bipartisanship is here, and it is alive and well, and I think this is a great example of it.

I wish the American people, to Tim’s point, got to see more of what we do and things like this. When we share a common goal with someone on the other side of the aisle, or anywhere, we have a duty and an obligation to the people we serve to get in a room and try to figure out a pathway forward. That’s what our constituents sent us here to do. 

Getting in that room and figuring out a pathway forward is critical to solving some of our nation’s toughest problems. And look, we’ve got a lot of issues that we need to deal with. And it is going to take people that share a common goal, getting in a room and working to figure that out. 

Building trust and respect amongst your colleagues allows you to have even more direct conversations, which helps you achieve results and solutions even faster. 

I know that there are a number of us that are committed to continuing to do that. I think that’s what America expects from us, and I think it’s what America deserves.

I appreciate you taking the time to cover this because a lot of times things like this don’t get the kind of coverage for the exact reason that Tim said. But the truth is, if we could get more coverage and we could get the word out there, it would help us build greater momentum and build it faster. 

When I look at what this could do for somebody living in Jefferson County, Alabama, where the average child care cost is $10,622. 

 Currently, if they were a working single parent and their employer contributed to DCAP, their cost would be $5,622 a year. 

Under this proposal, as implemented, their costs would go down to $622 a year. So from $10,622 to $622 a year, that is a game changer for anyone $420 a month. 

Imagine being a single mom working to make ends meet and have that type of dramatic difference. And so I appreciate you covering it, and I hope that we can continue to get the word out. I think if we do, it’ll also encourage more people to engage in conversations like Tim and I have engaged in on this one.

QUESTION FIVE: WHAT GIVES YOU HOPE 

Rittling: And we will do our part on that, for sure. One last question for you. It’s gonna be quick! What gives you hope?

Britt: Things like this. Because I think in an incredibly divided time that we’re in, and in the middle of an election season, everyone’s Twitter feeds are full of all the things that we don’t agree on.

The truth is, there is more that unites us than there is that divides us. And when we look at where we are as a nation, and we look at the challenges in front of us, I believe that people on the other side of the aisle took the same oath that I did, to the same constitution, the same flag, and to love and serve the same nation.

Finding common ground and finding a pathway forward on critical issues like this one that are affecting people’s ability to achieve the American dream, that are affecting our ability to tovgenerate opportunity within communities, and more, gives me hope about where we can go if we’re still committed to doing things like this together.

Kaine: I’ll tell you what gives me hope, Sarah. When we put out the press release on this bill, at the top of the press release was the names Kaine and Britt. But at the bottom of the press release was all of the organizations that have come on to support this: Organizations in Alabama, organizations in Virginia, national organizations and a long list of stakeholders. 

And I thank them. But I also thank our staff, Katie’s staff and mine, who worked really hard to share the bill, get ideas, make it better, and include their input. 

That group of stakeholders is frankly, probably what’s gonna enable us to get this over the finish line, and the fact that they’ve joined with us in this effort makes me very hopeful that we’re going to get it done.

Rittling: Well, thank you. You’ve been incredibly generous with your time today. You both give me hope. Both your policy expertise and your commitment and your just drive for this. So we’ll do our part. We thank you so very much.